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	<title>Comments on: Mythbusters golf ball car, Hot Wheels style</title>
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	<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/</link>
	<description>Toy cars. Real Racing.</description>
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		<title>By: tinn</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-3128</link>
		<dc:creator>tinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 21:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-3128</guid>
		<description>im in the sixth grade and im doing a science fair prodject exactly like this but with minature busses i carved dimples,ripples,and one smooth to see wich would go farther. so what i did was i made a ramp tunnel with a fan on one end and the car on the highest end. i turned on the fan so it would be as the wind coming against the bus and i let go of the bus from the top and the rippled one went the farthest!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>im in the sixth grade and im doing a science fair prodject exactly like this but with minature busses i carved dimples,ripples,and one smooth to see wich would go farther. so what i did was i made a ramp tunnel with a fan on one end and the car on the highest end. i turned on the fan so it would be as the wind coming against the bus and i let go of the bus from the top and the rippled one went the farthest!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-491</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-491</guid>
		<description>... though I should say that I, too, am somewhat surprised.  For a 4&#039; (1.2 meter) drop, the cars would be moving at most ~4.8 m/s ~10.5 mph.  Naturally, track friction and air drag reduce this.  According to drag coefficients for golf balls that I&#039;ve seen, the reduction in drag due to dimples doesn&#039;t really kick in until Reynolds number ~4*10^(-4), or about 16 m/s ~ 35 mph for a sphere in air, unless I&#039;ve screwed up somewhere.

But:
(1) experiment trumps expectation
(2) drag coefficients are VERY sensitive to details of the object.

so... I still think your thing here is cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; though I should say that I, too, am somewhat surprised.  For a 4&#8242; (1.2 meter) drop, the cars would be moving at most ~4.8 m/s ~10.5 mph.  Naturally, track friction and air drag reduce this.  According to drag coefficients for golf balls that I&#8217;ve seen, the reduction in drag due to dimples doesn&#8217;t really kick in until Reynolds number ~4*10^(-4), or about 16 m/s ~ 35 mph for a sphere in air, unless I&#8217;ve screwed up somewhere.</p>
<p>But:<br />
(1) experiment trumps expectation<br />
(2) drag coefficients are VERY sensitive to details of the object.</p>
<p>so&#8230; I still think your thing here is cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Vaughn</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-490</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Vaughn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-490</guid>
		<description>Rocket scientists AND nuclear physicists...geezoo. I think more brain power has commented on this article than all others combined...ever! haha..

Thanks for the insight Mike. And hey, OH-IO! I&#039;m an OSU grad myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rocket scientists AND nuclear physicists&#8230;geezoo. I think more brain power has commented on this article than all others combined&#8230;ever! haha..</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight Mike. And hey, OH-IO! I&#8217;m an OSU grad myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-489</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-489</guid>
		<description>Brian,

I&#039;m no rocket scientist, but I am a nuclear physicist and a professor at Ohio State University.  I&#039;m teaching an undergrad course this term, and will direct them to your page.  Very nice work!

Everything Charlie says about drag is correct.  The thing of course is that while that formula captures *most* of the velocity dependence of the force, the drag coefficient itself depends on velocity, for nontrivial reasons.  (I know, you guys both know this.  I just have to say *something*.)

Very cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no rocket scientist, but I am a nuclear physicist and a professor at Ohio State University.  I&#8217;m teaching an undergrad course this term, and will direct them to your page.  Very nice work!</p>
<p>Everything Charlie says about drag is correct.  The thing of course is that while that formula captures *most* of the velocity dependence of the force, the drag coefficient itself depends on velocity, for nontrivial reasons.  (I know, you guys both know this.  I just have to say *something*.)</p>
<p>Very cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-89</guid>
		<description>If I had the tools and equipment, I should do the dimple test with a timer. Get time to finish without dimples, then with dimples on the same car just like the Mythbusters did. That would eliminate variables between car modelings...but hey, it&#039;s Hot Wheels...it&#039;s fun!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had the tools and equipment, I should do the dimple test with a timer. Get time to finish without dimples, then with dimples on the same car just like the Mythbusters did. That would eliminate variables between car modelings&#8230;but hey, it&#8217;s Hot Wheels&#8230;it&#8217;s fun!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Wow, a real rocket scientist...welcome! Glad to have your input, regardless how much over my head everything you said is! I&#039;m not a scientist but I&#039;m glad to have one checking this stuff out, I think testing effects on Hot Wheels can be very interesting and challenging.

To be fair, I didn&#039;t do a whole lot of testing/racing with the dimpled car. I should do a ton more races versus the non-dimpled car to see if results are consistent. Like I said in the article, there is a lot of room for error the way I did things.

I explored weight distribution too a few weeks ago (check out the article under the Racing section) but haven&#039;t really been able to do any testing with it. Again, it&#039;s one of those cases where I would have figured the scale would negate efforts but maybe the dimple experiment suggests otherwise.

However, in your thoughts about looking for aerodynamic cars...I wouldn&#039;t change my habits based on this experiment. Hot Wheels are so variable when it comes to performance, even from the exact same model of car. A car that looks (and could be) aerodynamic may suck in a race because it&#039;s too light, the axles are weak, the wheels wobble, chassis is narrow.

Albeit, the slick/aero cars *look* faster, I&#039;ve found that they rarely are. But finding a good racer as a base, then applying science (like the dimples) might just be the combination to get the fastest car. Hmmmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, a real rocket scientist&#8230;welcome! Glad to have your input, regardless how much over my head everything you said is! I&#8217;m not a scientist but I&#8217;m glad to have one checking this stuff out, I think testing effects on Hot Wheels can be very interesting and challenging.</p>
<p>To be fair, I didn&#8217;t do a whole lot of testing/racing with the dimpled car. I should do a ton more races versus the non-dimpled car to see if results are consistent. Like I said in the article, there is a lot of room for error the way I did things.</p>
<p>I explored weight distribution too a few weeks ago (check out the article under the Racing section) but haven&#8217;t really been able to do any testing with it. Again, it&#8217;s one of those cases where I would have figured the scale would negate efforts but maybe the dimple experiment suggests otherwise.</p>
<p>However, in your thoughts about looking for aerodynamic cars&#8230;I wouldn&#8217;t change my habits based on this experiment. Hot Wheels are so variable when it comes to performance, even from the exact same model of car. A car that looks (and could be) aerodynamic may suck in a race because it&#8217;s too light, the axles are weak, the wheels wobble, chassis is narrow.</p>
<p>Albeit, the slick/aero cars *look* faster, I&#8217;ve found that they rarely are. But finding a good racer as a base, then applying science (like the dimples) might just be the combination to get the fastest car. Hmmmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.redlinederby.com/2009/11/mythbusters-golf-ball-car-hot-wheels-style/comment-page-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redlinederby.com/?p=332#comment-87</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m also surprised that dimpling would have much of an effect at the sizes we&#039;re talking about.  The aerodynamic resistance (drag) is a function of the surface area, but velocity is the only variable that is squared:

F(d) = -1/2pv^2AC(d)u

F(d) is the force of drag,
p is the density of the fluid
v is the velocity of the object relative to the fluid (air, in this case)
A is the reference area,
C(d) is the drag coefficient (a dimensionless parameter, e.g. 0.25 to 0.45 for a car)
u is the unit vector indicating the direction of the velocity 

Also, I would think that dimpling would lower the mass of the dimpled car, and that mass is one of the primary determinants of the speed of a gravity-powered vehicle like a Hot Wheels car.  If two cars are identical except for mass, the one with greater mass has more potential energy, if both cars are at the same starting height.

But your results speak for themselves; the dimpled car out-performed the un-dimpled one, in spite of its lower mass.

If aerodynamics makes a big difference in a Hot Wheels&#039; performance, I&#039;m wondering if I should be looking for exceptionally aerodynamic models when I purchase them in stores, if I&#039;m after performance?

And yes, if you haven&#039;t guessed, I&#039;m a Rocket Scientist.  Or at least, that&#039;s what I tell the neighborhood kids that play with my Hot Wheels.  It&#039;s almost true, since I work at NASA.

   -- Charlie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also surprised that dimpling would have much of an effect at the sizes we&#8217;re talking about.  The aerodynamic resistance (drag) is a function of the surface area, but velocity is the only variable that is squared:</p>
<p>F(d) = -1/2pv^2AC(d)u</p>
<p>F(d) is the force of drag,<br />
p is the density of the fluid<br />
v is the velocity of the object relative to the fluid (air, in this case)<br />
A is the reference area,<br />
C(d) is the drag coefficient (a dimensionless parameter, e.g. 0.25 to 0.45 for a car)<br />
u is the unit vector indicating the direction of the velocity </p>
<p>Also, I would think that dimpling would lower the mass of the dimpled car, and that mass is one of the primary determinants of the speed of a gravity-powered vehicle like a Hot Wheels car.  If two cars are identical except for mass, the one with greater mass has more potential energy, if both cars are at the same starting height.</p>
<p>But your results speak for themselves; the dimpled car out-performed the un-dimpled one, in spite of its lower mass.</p>
<p>If aerodynamics makes a big difference in a Hot Wheels&#8217; performance, I&#8217;m wondering if I should be looking for exceptionally aerodynamic models when I purchase them in stores, if I&#8217;m after performance?</p>
<p>And yes, if you haven&#8217;t guessed, I&#8217;m a Rocket Scientist.  Or at least, that&#8217;s what I tell the neighborhood kids that play with my Hot Wheels.  It&#8217;s almost true, since I work at NASA.</p>
<p>   &#8212; Charlie</p>
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