Filling the brackets, themes and rules

Hi Smitty,

I think that a good way to approach this is by keeping a general theme to a race...just mot have them be too specific. For the Middleweight race going on this weekend, the theme was pretty wide open, but I haven't got too many racers. I think that it helps to have a general theme (muscle cars, but no specific years...hot rods, trucks, etc.)

The fte's are a little tricky to come up with, but, racers don't HAVE to run fte's...a good set of 5-spokes can be pretty fast. So, maybe every now and then, we can run a 5-spoke (or other) race...the Wagon Wars race had some good racing...and fast cars!

Just my 2 cents

What I am up against is time. My mind runs crazy with ideas when I read a new race thread. I start picturing builds and buying donors for the build which is difficult for me since I work 70 hours a week, sleep in my Freightliner and rarely have time to hit a store or two along the way. When I am home , usually for only a day and a half, I much rather spend that precious little time enjoying quality time resting and relaxing with my wife, and feel bad going to the work bench to build. 

I have recently built a toolbox to take with me on the road, but so far, all I have been able to do is take a couple pictures of projects sitting on my dashboard to post.

Having to build to spec for a certain race I want to participate in is fun, but, it takes away from the fun of being creative and ( dare I say.... "Sillyness" in an innocent fun hobby aspect kind of definition... Isn't  the idea of being happy in any hobby, the thrill of getting that feeling of accomplishment when a project goes well to completion. That silly sense of pride one feels....)...

Yet I digress.... Having to build to spec, in a short time frame is difficult, for myself at least. As I am sure it is for others as well from posts I have seen recently. 

I, personally am in the process of at least a dozen projects, either for races, and personal projects I want for myself or cars I promised for my wife's personal showcar collection.  

Add to this, the only 2 cars I have actually completed were for a race, and neither of them even roll worth a dang.... ( but, they do look good, not perfect as I would like which was a product of feeling the pressure of a deadline)

In summary, from a guy who is VERY INTETESTED, and REALLY FEELS the sense of community and friendship, helpfulness and respect shared on this site between us all.....

I've yet to officially build a car to send in and race...

Other than the 3 redball car team and the madmax car idea I am building for a race that has not even been created yet,  I honestly don't know if building a racer from scratch is ever going to happen for me, personally. 

But, don't rule me out...'specially for a rip and race. I've obtained a few FTE'S and realize that... They do make a difference.

Does this make any sense???

I would agree with almost everything said so far. I think themes are a great way to frame a race but overall they should be pretty open and not too specific. Having a "European" tournament is much better than having a tournament of "European cars that were only built between 1950 and 1970 and used in a James Bond movie."

If someone wants to host/create a very specific tournament, that's fine, but the expectation should not be to have dozens of people enter. Not only will a theme limit the audience, the rules framing the tournament will as well.

I don't believe anyone should be turned away from entering a tournament, regardless how much their car does (or does not) follow a theme. Theme rules should come secondary to build rules, ie, weight, dimensions, etc.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, like Crazy Trucker, we're all in the "limited time to play" boat...I know I am. Jobs, families, whatever...play time is precious. Building a car for a race shouldn't be a chore, it should be fun. Obviously, what's "fun" varies per person but overall someone should be able to take apart a car, swap some wheels, add some weight then slap some paint on it and be done. There's a fine line between making models and modding Hot Wheels...lets make sure we're asking people to play on the right side of that line. If you want to go above and beyond, that's great but don't make that a requirement to play.

Bottomline: Keep themes simple and broad. Build rules can be more specific.

However, with all that said...it's also okay if a tournament doesn't happen. If you throw up an idea and no one really bites, just cancel the tournament and try again. That's okay. That happened to me recently and while I thought the reaction would be better, it's not a big deal. In those cases, just make sure you retract a tournament within a reasonable amount of time so as to avoid someone investing in it and the having it get canceled. (Or on the flip side, as an entrant, wait a week or so before you start building, just in case).

I'm glad Smitty seeded this discussion because it's been on my mind recently as I'm trying to build a Tournament Manager section of the web site to help us get more organized and manage stats. The things we suggest and bring up here will help dictate how the future functions.

Just thought of one more thing related to tournaments in general...not every tournament has to be a series.

Sure, it's fun seeing cars roll on different tracks around the country but if the stars aren't aligning and it's hard to coordinate/find enough tracks to host, just host the tournament yourself and be done. It's just as fun making a car for one track as it is several.

Especially if you're newer to the whole process, hosting a single tournament on your home track is a great way to get your feet wet before you have to deal with shipping and deadlines.

By all rights, there's no reason you can't have several tournaments on a single track over a couple weekends. Just track points and then re-seed a second tournament based on that...race, repeat, get a winner. Lots of ways to have fun without the worry of coordinating other locations. 

What im going to say might of been said in differenet words maybe mor or less I think in order to keep everyone in the fun aspect of building cars to race and to keep the number of entrants involved in a race or series then we let them build the cars they like to build and all the rules would be is wheels and weight limits. Leave the car type open to build whatever we want as long as they meet the above requirements and I think that might bring in the numbers as far as entrants.

Another thought is if we did want to get away from always having series racing is taking turns as hosts each month to have just one track hosts. The host would come up with the rules such as car types and weight and wheels and if the host wants to run his own series by changing the track dimensions and having a series that way it will limit it to one host bust different track dimensions such as drop height and length and turns ect. That could mix it up a little but keeping it simple enough for everyone to enjoy and stay interested in our hobby.

Hmmmm...wondering if monthly tournaments can be a solution of sorts, or at least that is something we can easily organize (themes and rules aside).....? Simple is always better.

If there is only one tournament every month (series or single), that will keep a constant that everyone can bank and kinda plan for. I do think having more than one per month makes people choose which one they want, especially if it's a mod tournament (stock tournaments less so). 

Basically there could be a sign-up for each month and you claim your spot. You get to set the theme/rules and can determine if you want it a series or a single tournament. But then do we need to limit the number of hosts per series so it does't last forever? Personally, I think a series with more than 4 stops gets lost in the shuffle and I (even as a spectator) kind of lose interest until a winner is announced.

Plus, as the site content manager, it's a lot easier to promote and highlight one tournament every month rather than several. We can hype it up more and take more time to supplement the experience. That alone could help bring more folks into the fold and have them jump right in without having navigate our history as much. People would be more inclined to check back and see what the tournament is each month, popping in and out as they can.

Good ideas!

AGAIN, IMO...While we are talking rules, along with a looser series / tourney theme, lets stick with a regular weight, if a racer can't finish his car in time for a series, he could still finish it and then just run it in the next series...

  The consistent  weight will help make  RLD's "all star elimination" at years end fair for all the cars...

 IMO... I think 57 Gs is heavy, curbs the potential entries as you can't stuff 57 grams into everything HW casts...  while we give racers a little more lee way on theme, maybe a lighter limit would let a bunch of castings become feasible.

 "Small block" style series WEIGHTS for lightweights and  "big block" style series WEIGHTS for heavies would be fine... but keep the rest consistent at ??.? Gs...

  I know some racer's are using ounce scales and the fact that 57Gs = 2 OZ... was cool...  

  Well, what about 1.5 OZ = 42 Gs ? ... my opinion only... Looking for Everyone's  $0.02

I hope I am not overstepping my bounds seeing as I have only entered one rip-n-roll and just sent in my first mods for the rookie series but I seem to be almost living on the site so here's a newbie's 2 cents:

I think the site and interest in this hobby is only going to grow.  Keeping the tourny requirements simpler certainly will attract more racers and act as an entryway to the more advanced stuff.  Right now when I see some of the things a few of you are doing with cutting up castings and switching chassis I am blown away.  I'm still trying to figure out how to manage axle tubes but I am hoping to get to that level at some point.  I think there is room for the "Master Builder" tournys but it just might take some time for a few of us to get there.

Right now the only restriction for me is the FTE wheels.  They seem to be such a difference maker that at this point their inclusion is a deal breaker for me when looking at something to enter.  I am trying to get something together for the "Beater Truck/Fat Fender" event but only because there might be other awards offered besides just speed.

I think 1-2 months is perfect for preparing cars.

I like the idea of the "run what ya brung" theme, with just establishing the guidelines for the weight and the wheels.  As a host I can't wait to see in person what kind of cars actually show up.  I think it would be fun to have the variety of cars running against each other.  Heck, I lost the Matchbox Stock Finals race at the LJLRC last month to a dinosaur (mostly because my car fell off the track).   As far as wheels, it seems to me about the only type we ever say is not accepted are Redline wheels.  A nice 5 spoke with a little axle polishing and some graphite can be very fast.

Hey smitty I like that idea of having every race at the same weight class and then having a years end race it will give all of us something much bigger to work towards rather than just the series champion. Thats always nice, but to be named redline derby's top champ for the whole year would be a pretty big deal. Also like you said we can have two weight classes small block and big block is a really good idea. 

I think the one race or one series starting per month provides focus gets most everyone entering a car or more.  I think race fundamentals matter - weight, wheelbase, axles, etc. - for the race aspect but there's nothing really wrong with muscles racing formula one racing luxury racing insects provided they all abide the functional rules.  Yet at the same time themes provide some interest...

What if there was one race or series per month but multiple themes?  All cars go to the same place for the same race and any meeting the fundamentals can race regardless of what they look like.  Anyone that would like to suggest a theme can do so, the race organizer/first host playing gatekeeper for two or more official themes with prizes.  Prizes coming from theme boosters...I suggest a Mad Max theme the rules are (appearance or more narrow fundamentals) and offer the prize of an unopened pre-whatever blah blah...others can add to theme prizes to encourage participation.  "Hey that's a cool idea, I'll toss in a 2nd place custom from last year for the fastest mad max"...Themes don't have to have prizes really, but might attract interest in the theme.

You end up with an overall winner and a couple sub winners.

Only a rookie here but, I love the idea of an Annual Red Line Derby Championship. Each month could provide a winner of common weight/wheel combo tournement (series or single event?) with the winner being entered in the (possible?) exclusive tourney year end. Additional, way to look at it would be to seed the monthly winners with byes and allow "late" new enteries to challenge those previous winners to become the Red Line Derby Champ. My question is how many members of this site are there? How many of those actively participate? How/what can be done to increase those numbers?

All of this communication right now if nothing, is providing a stronger racing community. More races = more web content and thats going to drive a larger community. 

Just like the cars we build, lets keep the wheels rolling.......fast.....and forward!

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