Diecast64 Races, Red Pill, JL vs hot wheels, FOTF!

Haha, enoyed your post.  I agree there are some fast Johnny Lightnings out there.  I have a few castings that I have found to be pretty quick. Here's my two cents.   I think most of the questions can be summed up in one word.  Graphite.  I allow graphite in my stock races.  I chose to do that because I didn't want to deal with cheating.  I didn't want to examine a car and try to tell if it has been graphited before.  I just allow graphite and that puts everyone on the same playing field and I don't have to police it.  Soooo, first, my thought is that the Johnnies don't always do as well because it's harder to get the Johnnies graphited well. Particularly where the axle head rubs on the wheel hub.  That's a different set-up than Hot Wheels and it's hard to get the graphite inside the wheel.  Hot Wheels cars (aside from a few castings like the Pro Circuit series) don't have that hub on them so it's easy to get graphite on all the rubbing parts on a Hot Wheels car. 

Second, I'm pretty sure the LJLRC doesn't allow graphite.  I know most of the cars FOTF sends haven't been graphited so that he can continue to race them at LJLRC.  That also may be a deterent to other LJLRC members from sending cars, although I'd love to see more of them race at D64. 

Finally, the Fairmonts at LJLRC.  This is just a guess, but the Hot Ones Fairmonts are old.  Even if you get one still in the package, it's been sitting around for 30+ years.  The axles have had a lot of time to oxydize, rust, or whatever else can happen to metal after 30 years.  It has been my experience that out of the package, the Fairmonts are only so so.  But graphite can really get those things humming.  Again, I believe LJLRC doesn't allow graphite, so I think the Fairmonts haven't dominated there because of that.  Anyway, just some thoughts haha.

A lot of the winning cars you are seeing at LJLRC are the same cars year in and year out by the same racers...so the sample size you're actually seeing isn't as expansive as you think with the JL's

The ljlrc doesn't allow graphite but also if you win there your car isn't allowed back for a year so it's not the same car always winning. 

Hey Diecast64! Great post and upon reflection a lot of your theories make sense. While I haven't gotten too much into the graphite area, I do remember watching Red Pill testing the differences and it can indeed be huge on some castings. He's also definitely correct about the matchbox starburst vehicles, a lot are almost duds out of the box but the graphite turns them into killers.

I still feel that JL can beat those fairmonts and really hope some of the top guys at LJLRC will take up the challenge. I've seen past forum posts and online activity that suggests they're up for the challenge.

smalldiecastcorvettes.com/manufac/Fastest_to_the_Finish.html

www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/1658-diecast-downhill-gravity-racing/252939-who-has-fastest-johnny-lightning.html

How about this blast from the past? :)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHqVwpu2Xdo

bluerealriders.com/dark/challenge1.html

I don't think the above track allowed graphite but yet that matchbox couldn't be touched for ages.

Hi NDeavers80 and LeagueofSpeed. Thanks for the input. I hope you continue that Quest for speed series, awesome stuff!

About LJLRC, while I don't know anything about them beyond following their monthly races, they do seem to have both the same cars allowed every month but also new winners and castings. You an see the results below. They also have some recorded races every month on the facebook group.

www.ljlrc.com/category/results/

If anyone knows Wilson Otero please get him involved haha! He seems to have shaken things up there since appearing many months ago and has an awesome eye for speed. He's even rocking some Tiger wheels! Someone please inform him about D64. He looks the competetive type.

Being a member of the LJLRC for about 8 years now I'll do my best to fill you guys in.   

We don't allow graphite. It's all about keeping if fair to everyone. Lots of kids race in the different classes and they aren't going to graphite their cars (unless the parents do it).  They aren't going to hang around long if they don't have a chance of winning. We also have a variety of classes so somebody isn't running a Matchbox against an FTE. That being said, the kid's race has kids drawing up to 10 cars blindly from a box and you never know what you'll get. Those cars are either donated or purchased by the club so you could see a JL running against a Maisto.  

Fairmonts. Honestly, they rarely show up. They'd run in Hot Wheels Stock but I never see anybody with them. The Ferrari F40 is popular (I don't have any lol) so there's usually several. 

You will see the same car running in some of the classes. People tend to gravitate towards fast cars when they see them win, i.e. The BWF Camaro, F40, certain FTE castings, etc.  There can be anywhere from about 50 to 90 people show up at any given meeting so you are bound to see it. If you win with it you can't race it again or another of the same casting for the rest of that year plus the following year. So if you win in January you're out of luck for 2 years.  Not really a big deal if you have to wait that long to bring back a winner or even try another of the same casting. 

Regarding videos, we try to do the best we can. But we are also running 3 tracks and anywhere from 600 to 900 cars at a meeting. The kids race alone can sometimes have well over 200 cars. That's all a far cry from a single race like what's done here. I used to host races when we all just reported the winners in type. Then the videos came in and really made the racing great. Unfortunately I'm video challenged which is why I haven't hosted in years. 

Im not sure, but the mod racing we did kinda died due to lack of interest. I used to build for them but when they were being dominated by a single entrant for about 12 or so months I dropped out. I don't and can't put in the kind of time even some of you guys do when modding and I'm fine with that. I do it because I enjoy it, it's fun, and I like competing against a great bunch of guys here on RLD. 

By the way, one of my stock entries for next weeks Muscle Car race, no graphite, is a BWF Camaro. I only have one and it hasn't been raced in some time so it will be interesting to see it in action.

So bring on your Fairmonts!  

Feel free to ask any questions about the LJLRC. 

Hey Dadvball, Thanks for informing us. I can understand the rules in place as the club seems orientated around community which is great. However, the elite vehicles that are run there seem to be in the Lightning Fast 1 and Lightning Fast 2 categories. It doesn't seem like that 2 year rule applies there as it's always won by the same top tier JL catsings. It's those elite tier 1 catsings that can give the faimonts a run. The BWF camaro, monoploly Silverado Pickup, spiderman camaro and the various epic Van catsings. 

It seems like the issue of graphite might be the real problem. I can understand any LJLRC guys not wanting to graphite their car as it would restrict them from using it at their home track but it would be awesome if a one off race meet can be held where the fastest of the fast (FOTF? LOL) could race for ultimate bragging rights. 

BWF Camaro takes it in 2.31sec @ 415MPH.  :)

HI Supra80. Many years ago, before I started racing, the BWF Camaro was so dominate it was pulled from racing as it blew the doors off all the other JL castings.   A number of years ago Lightning Fast was started so the guys with Camaros could race.  Pretty much the same thing happened with the Vans in the JL Stock class. So Lightning Fast 1 became Camaros only and Lightning Fast 2 was for the Vans and anything else. FOTF has run a Disney bus. As long as it met the qualifying time you could race it. 

You can still run Vans in Super Stock, along with MB Laser Wheels, Redlines, and any brand Funny Cars.  

Beginning next year LF1 and LF2 are being combined.  When the Camaro and Van race for the King of The Hill the Vans have won more this year. The 2 year wait was changed back to 1 year this year I believe.  

I have a BWF Camaro and when I get it back from the Muscle Car race I'll be happy to send it off to you to race a Fairmont.  I have raced it and won a few times in LF1 and lost in The King of The Hill final.  I just don't race in that category any more.  It's not a slouch but isn't one of the fastest compared to other member's cars.  It'll be interesting to see how it does in the race.

Maybe I Can talk FOTF into sending one of his Camaros along for the ride.  I'll let you know  

Hey Supra,

Thanks for the post! I was entertained by it in a couple ways--first because I like a good trash talk, and second because I was genuinely surprised to learn that I still had anything at all racing at D64, ha-ha! (I had completely forgotten about the cars I had there--I couldn't even remember which Camaro that was at first--and Robby hadn't had a chance to ask me what I wanted to do with them, so he kindly kept racing them for me ... and though it looks like it hasn't scored any points, I was fairly happy with that Camaro's times when I was reviewing a recent video since seeing this post).

I think most of the comments above sum up the situation pretty well. However, now that the gauntlet's been thrown down, I can see I'm going to have to get some fast JLs out to UT.... Graphite does help them, though I can certainly see what D64's getting at with them not doing as much for JLs as for HWs. Plus, he's right: I don't always graphite my cars, but when I do, they generally aren't my very fastest to begin with--because then I wouldn't be able to race my very fastest at places like the LJLRC. At one time, I did have my fastest Camaro at D64--and while it could get into the top ten (at least at first), it couldn't beat the top things seen in that class (and wasn't going to, seeing that the same cars/castings from the same racers race there each month without getting retired, last I knew--which is fine for those with the time and graphite to work at beating them ... hence why I need to find more time and either find my long-lost graphite tube or buy a new one).

I didn't see dadvball's comment until just now, actually, and am sorry I missed the Veteran's Day tournament. I have a Camaro (or two since you brought up the one at D64) that might have done well in it. Maybe next year!

Thanks for posting! I hope to answer your challenge before long!

Hey FOTF! It's great to see that you've taken interest. I knew a challenge and a bit of trask talk would get you up.  :)  I can fully appreciate that it isn't as straight forward as just sending the fastest JL straight to D64. The issues of graphite, other race events and the risk factors play a part in these races. JL in particular are not easy to buy brand new and when you do find the elite castings they unfortunately can cost a fair amount.

My money is still on an elite BWF camaro or a 77 Spiderman Dodge Van.

Where's our man Red Pill hiding these days? :P

Yes, I will finally finish the first season of the Quest for Speed over the Holidays...and I always have a JL running in every Quest...all the cars on QfS don't have graphite...every car is given 5 break in runs after leaving the blister pack...and a Fairmont and BWF Camaro have already made it into the Pantheon of Speed for the 16 car final race...so stay tuned.

I enjoyed your post and I'm glad to hear that you enjoy the videos on my channel. I try to throw out little nuggets of knowledge in my videos in sometimes I threw out more than I meant to. Lol.

I'll stand by my statement that Johnny lightning cannot compete with Hot  Wheels  Or some of the older matchbox superfast as long as graphite is allowed. I 2nd what Nick Deavers said, LJLRC E does not allowed lubricant of any kind and that is why the Johnny lightnings can run with some of the Hot Wheels. Cars like the matchbox laser wheels are only average until you add graphite and then they can turn into elite cars.

You are also right about the track set up making a difference. Cars that are dominant on my track are sometimes outran by less dominant cars on my track when they go to diecasts 64. Cars can totally run different based on the track.  Height of the drop and total flat run out or whether it's an all downhill track make a huge difference. The only way to find out what works best is through testing and that takes time. People who run at the front almost everywhere are guaranteed to have put in a lot of time testing.