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Maybe you don't buy or choose cars at all? Maybe you earn cars by picking the winners in the brackets. If you pick the champion car in the bracket, it then gets added to your garage and if it races in future brackets (random) you'll get the double points as outlined originally...
You'd still get points per win with your bracket submission - this would be the bulk of your score.
Trying to build interesting fun around a 16-car tournament is becoming very hard...I feel like I'm pulling at straws here, which means I'm starting to over-think things again. It shouldn't be this tough.
How about requiring players to enter each race with garage cars to earn the double points?
Tournaments will be 16-cars and players have to register any single car from their garage into the race. First 16 entries are it, after that it's closed. If there are less than 16 player entries, slots will be filled at random from the car population.
All players will still earn points from submitting brackets and picking winners.
Maybe there are 3 ways to get points:
- Submitting brackets and picking wining cars (low pay out)
- Having cars in your garage win in tournaments (avg pay out)
- Entering a specific car in the tournament and winning (big pay out)
This creates 3 ways to play the game that can cater to several play styles. Everyone can submit brackets, that's the easy part. Players will still want to collect (buy) cars for their garage because if any of those cars race then you get more points, but this is still random lottery. And if you're a player that really wants to win, you can enter a specific car and earn more points if it wins.
I guess one thing that's a big question mark is the number of people that will passively play the game? If there are less than 16 people that are actively playing, there shouldn't be any car/bracket limit problems. And should it arise that there are more than 16 people entering cars weekly, we can expand the bracket to 32 cars.
Okay. I think this is the winning formula. Fantasy League 2.0 will offer three modes of play. Players will be able to choose how involved they want to be depending on what their goal is.
Beginner - Submitting brackets
Players will submit their bracket picks for each tournament. You'll get points for each win you pick correctly.
Intermediate - Collecting cars
Players can use points to "buy" cars for their garage. Garages are unlimited. If a car in your garage is raced in a tournament, you get double points for each win. The chances of a garage car being in a tournament is random. The more cars in your garage, the more chances you have to earn double points.
Advanced - Entering races
Players can enter any one car from their garage into a tournament. There are only 16 slots in a tournament, first come, first served. You can only enter a car that has not already been entered by another player, even if you both have the car in your garage. One car entry per player per tournament. You'll get triple points for each race won by the car you entered.
This game setup lets people play casually or hardcore. The game will be easy to start playing for those new to the whole thing, but you guys that want to be in it to win it can scout cars, build your garage, and enter them weekly. I also plan on keeping challenges and achievements as part of the game.
In the end, this keeps tournaments small and manageable for me while avoiding the limits we've already run into, and it should be fun at some level for everyone that is interested.
What do you think?
I like it, I think it will work. I think it works because more than one person can own a car, so even if you didn't get a chance to enter a car from your garage into the race, you still might have one of your cars win.
The only thing is I think we need to have more spots than players, so that way everyone has a chance to enter a car into a spot. I don't think it's fair to have some people locked out because they got to the bracket a second behind someone else. If we have more spots than players, then it's guaranteed that every player can enter a car if they want to and we'll just have some random cars put in there. I'd rather have everyone get a chance if they want instead of some players getting locked out. Just my 2 cents.
I agree but there can't be more spots than players. That's the way it is now - one spot per player - and there are too many races to manage weekly. I know 16-cars isn't many, maybe I'll up it to 32, but in a "real" tournament for a club or other event, there would be limited entry too. You'd have to sign-up, pay, register, whatever...so I don't think it's that unfair to ask people to care about putting effort into entering a car.
PLUS...I think the number of people that will play that way is less than the total number of people playing. Right now there are 42 players, yet less than 10 of them actively manage their garage week to week. That tells me there are more casual players than hardcore players in the first place. I think this tiered approach will satisfy the bulk of casual players while giving the hardcore players something more.
I honestly don't think you'll have to worry about kicking locked out of a tournament. If that starts happening frequently, then we'll look at expanding the bracket.
Thanks for your feedback. I'm glad to hear that the whole plan doesn't sound too far out.
You could just drop the best of three format and run heads up. It's perfectly normal for a car to respond better to a different lane. We all know that when it comes to drag racing it's not always the fastest car that wins. That will also help liven up the voting.
Not a bad idea. I agree completely that it's not always about being fair to the car, sometimes it's just getting lucky. And it would make things go a little quicker. I'll have to think about that.
Would you want to pick which lane your car races in? Or does leaving that up to chance not bother anyone?
Honestly, my track isn't so consistent that if Lane 1 seems faster this week it means it will also be fast next week. I try to leave the track up all the time, but sometimes it comes down and I have to reconnect pieces on race day.
I put the cars into the bracket at random. Then race the odd number cars in lane 1 and even cars in lane 2.
Just pick the cars for the race, put them in a pile and add them to the bracket as they land. Any car can win on any day. It makes for some exciting racing and very unpredictable outcomes.
Reading through all of that thinking began to worry me about how complicated v2 might become, but when you got it down to three simple ways to earn points I breathed a sigh of relief. I do hope that most of us will be able to enter a car in each tournament, that would make the races more exciting and fair in that we all have opportunities to earn the triple points. I also like the idea of a one lane race because it lessens the amount of racing for you and it keeps things up to chance a bit more.
I wonder if players would be interested in having two separate ranking systems? One for the hardcore players who purchase cars and enter them into the tournaments for triple points and the other for players that mainly just want to pick winners. I'm thinking that if we're all put together, the players that mainly just want to pick winners will not have a chance to be top dog in the rankings.
I'm a little confused about the differences between the Intermediate and Advanced.
If a car in your garage is entered in a tournament and wins you get double points.
If you enter a car in a tournament and wins, you get triple points.
Are we talking about two different kinds of tourneys? or is it if my car gets randomly chosen I get double but if I specifically enter my car in I get triple?
I'm confused but that ain't sayin much.
Overall I'm really looking forward to whatever ends up being v2.0.
@JDC - Having separate scoreboards is an interesting thought. I don't think it could be done well with separating total scores, but having a leaderboard of people that have picked the most winners sounds reasonable. Just because you have the top score in points doesn't necessarily mean you pick winners all the time.
Or is it if my car gets randomly chosen I get double but if I specifically enter my car in I get triple?
Exactly. The Advanced play requires players to enter a specific car in their garage into the race, but this requires action from the player to do so - it's not automatic. If you "physically" enter a car into a bracket, it guarantees that one of your cars will be in the tournament. Otherwise it's luck of the draw to get double points.
I want the players that get into the game (you guys) to be rewarded for your efforts, hence the triple points. Casual players that may start by just picking winners get points too, but if they want to win they have to get involved. I think it's safe to say that all you guys that post here in the forum will get the full experience of the game. When you get down to it, the fantasy league is for us that love the racing and stuff...but if casual collectors or car people want to have some fun, I want them to enjoy it...and just maybe they'll see the fun in the hobby.