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Summer Pro-Am - Stage 2 - Amateur division

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redlinederby 6/28/21
Site manager

All the points brought up are very valid and we'll carry all the feedback forward. I've already started conversations with Indiana so we can make adjustments before August. 

I apologize for the disappointment and frustration coming out of this stage. This track very much surprised me how abusive it was to the cars. 

But I'll take the hit on the scoring format since I approved it, and for that, I apologize. As someone that has no experience running open track races, I didn't do enough research to find the best (or most common) format. I just expected that if anyone had concerns with the points system, they would have brought it up and we'd change it before racing started. The formats were posted well before racing started and without any feedback one way or the other, we went ahead with it.

As I mentioned prior, I didn't anticipate so much DNFing and thus didn't have rules in place for that situation. We'll adjust the rules and scoring before the next open track race in August. 

I appreciate all the feedback. Lets keep on rolling and enjoy the racing that's still to come.

  • I just figured the points on this was to be a little more cutthroat, and it was! I wasn't anticipating as many DNFs either before I started watching even more Open Track races. I didn't have any feedback then for those reasons. I'm just happy to be here to learn! lol — pupulesurfer

My only statement is that the point system is not mine.  The only time we've used it is for this.  For 4-car races we use 5-3-2-1.  Although normally we only do 2-car races.  We ran the cars per the rules that were posted for months.  We had originally run the Amateur races under our regular scoring.  After checking the official rules about how to handle a tie, we noticed the required scoring and switched to using that all the way through.  No results would have been different until the final round.  Feel free to do the math.  The one thing that would have turned out differently is that the tie in the final round would have been between the 1st/2nd place cars rather than the 2nd/3rd place cars.

We didn't do our regular scoring on the Pros, so I don't know how differently the results would have turned out. By then we knew what the rules said about the scoring.

If you've ever watched IDR's races, he's normally 4-3-2-1 with DNF's not resetting.  If you go back and watch the Pinks for the Cure races on our track (version 1.0), you'll see a lot of all-way DNFs.  Prior to this race, Pupule Surfer had never had a car make it all the way down our track, even in a number of extra runs that I filmed privately for him after his Pinks entry.  He inquired about changes he could make to his build to fit the aspects of our track. In this race he stayed on the track more, and advanced beyond the first round.

  • I'll vouch for my Pinks car doing nothing. You went above and beyond to help me out and doing a little extra work. My car stayed on track every race but one and I swear the other drivers had it out for me and pushed me off! ;) — pupulesurfer
  • I'll take the heat for the scoring system, that's on me. I'll live and learn from that one. My only disappoint with scoring is that no one said anything prior to racing. Scoring concerns could have been resolved easily. — redlinederby
  • Indeed. It's s also on me, as we didn't notice the 2-1-0 thing until we were mid-filming. We abided by what had been published so that, in theory, no one would be surprised by a sudden rule change. — GenX_VintageRacing
  • Having raced on IDR's track I can vouch for it being challenging. I also want to publicly thank you for the repair job you told me you did when my car left the track in testing and shattered. I have never had that happen with any other car I've done, and a fair few have dropped 2 and a half feet to the floor with zero failures, however that may have been what weakened the bond to begin with, so again thank you. I must point out however that there is a difference between having a challenging track like the tricky triangle and a track with the reputation of multiple total party kills to the pack. Die cast racing is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Die cast racing on youtube is a hot form of entertainment. I would respectfully point out that neither myself nor anyone I know that was rooting for my car found what went on to the cars in this tournament to be entertaining. Quite the opposite in fact. It's one thing for we the drivers to be upset perhaps, but people who have no experience in the sport were quite vocal about the track conditions being sub par to put it nicely. Think of it this way. If your events are going to be so cutthroat that you would rather tout how tough your track is and how its known for full field DNF's rather than tuning it for a better and more responsible and respectful racing experience, then you are going to find very quickly that nobody is going to want to race on your track. It's not real life, sure, but track safety is track safety and that is your responsibility as the track owner. Does that mean that all crashes and falls can be eliminated? No. We all accept that these things can and do happen under the best of conditions. But if we are being honest, the track conditions in this case, were shoddy and inherently prone to wrecking and worse tossing cars from the track. You had cars getting stopped by tape or spun out going into turns. You had Augmoto track going back into crash racers heavily grooved track, essentially smooth back into rough, cars were hitting the joints between segments and careening or overturning. I tried to be civil about this, but the bottom line is, while everyone appreciates you volunteering and the effort it took to produce the video, the cars NEVER should have been allowed to race under these conditions. — The_Commish
  • Now, in light of everything, I concede that it is entirely possible, given whatever circumstances that caused you to suddenly take down your other track, that you perhaps found yourself in a situation where you just weren't ready, but still wanted to fulfill your obligation towards the Pro Am. I get that. I can respect that. If that is what happened and the reason why the track just didn't seem dialed in and ready to race safely, then I would suggest that, presuming you tested it with your own cars first and discovered the major hazards, that you would have contacted RLD and possibly asked to reschedule your race. Would that have been a pain in the butt? Sure, but we all know that wasn't your best track, and I for one would have been understanding and excited to see what a full fledged Psychadelic speedway could be if given the time to get it right. You probably at this point are thinking, "SCREW YOU UNGRATEFUL @#$!ERS" but if you are honest, you have to acknowledge that we put our trust in you to provide a safe racing experience. Maybe my car would have still crashed and shattered, and you were certainly under no obligation to fix it. That was understood from the start that using Gorilla glue hot glue was a risky move on my part. I can accept that, and again appreciate you fixing it. My point is we are trying to be diplomatic and understanding, while being honest about the track experience. And we should have all caught the problem with the scoring in the posted rules... So the onus on that is on all of us who were involved, and that is a fair counter argument and a valid point. Bottom line, we all just want to grow this sport and to do that we need to put on the best show for our audience and that requires ALL of us to do our part, even if it means admitting when we are unable to safely continue and find some alternative. — The_Commish

****Amature Injury/damage Report****
I did a visual check of each car and this is what I see from the outside. These cars were not taken apart and with some it is hard to tell if they were damaged or built the way they are. If you see loose Axel or wobble in an axel understand that some do not JB Weld their axels and this is not necessarily damage but the way it was built. I will leave everyone to decide individually how they sent out their cars. Cars with open wheels and at heavier weights seemed to fare the worst.

Rubber Tow- Back Axel slightly loose. Wheels spin well no obvious damage

Dog town- Front Axel slightly loose, no obvious damage

Bolo Brown- Stock car, No obvious damage

Spy Dude- No obvious damage

Uncle Joe- No obvious damage

Diego- loose weight inside, wheels spin fine

Big Mac- rear axle slight play, may not be glued down prior. Wheels spin well

Cash Money- No obvious damage

DeeJay- No obvious damage

Road Runner- front right wheel does not roll freely, too tight to fender, back right wheel looks like it has glue stuck in it, does not roll freely. Back left wheel sanded too harshly, front left wheel does not roll freely, too tight to fender. Looks like most if not all of this was preexisting.

Commotion Diecast- left front wheel slightly bent, no running. Left rear wheel bent not rubbing, right front wheel slightly bent, not rubbing, right rear wheel bent, not rubbing

Purple Surfer- Bent front right wheel, Bent front left wheel, back wheels look good

The Commish- Car in one piece screwed together nicely. Wobble in rear axel causing wheels to touch fender at times. Wobble in front left wheel.

Overclocked- right front wheel slightly bent, Right rear wheel bent. Not rubbing. 

PWC- Wobble in rear axle. If it was JB Welded then it's loose but may just be set in it original factory channel. 

Capper- wobble front axel. 

All cars should roll well enough to get down the track. Make your own judgements on how the condition of your car changed.

  • Thanks for the update, BLR! Much appreciated. I did not do a wheel swap for Rubber Tow's car. It was stock wheels that came with the car. I also don't weld/glue down the axles as I'm on the side of the fence that prefers free spinning axles. I'm happy for the car to move forward as is. — Kaiju_Colorado
  • Thanks for the update, BLR! Much appreciated. I did not do a wheel swap for Rubber Tow's car. It was stock wheels that came with the car. I also don't weld/glue down the axles as I'm on the side of the fence that prefers free spinning axles. I'm happy for the car to move forward as is. — Kaiju_Colorado
  • Thank you for the examination and updates. After that free-for-all, I know a lot of us were very worried about our cars. — SpyDude
  • Thanks for the report on the cars. My axles were not glued in place. I can't remember if there was a lite play already or not. — Big_Mac
  • Thanks for the report. We know you can't do anything about the damage, but it is greatly appreciated the obvious care and respect you are showing to the vehicles. I know I said this to Brian, aka RLD, but there was no way he could have anticipated anything less than the sort of respect and care you have shown to be shown to our rides at the Box Canyon. Nobody could. The damage to the pro division is so much worse than the amateurs, so we probably got off lightly. Considering my car was shattered, credit to whom it is due, Kit seemed to put it back together at least decently. Looking forward to your event. — The_Commish
  • Man, thank you so much for the time and effort you put into checking each car’s condition! It’s greatly appreciated. — Commotion_Diecast
  • Well done BLR, cheers — CutRock_R_Marc_D
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SpyDude 6/30/21

This stage of the racing brought a whole new meaning to "levelling the field"...........

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